Assassin without perma - Guild Wars Forums

Dacomos · Jul 10, 2009, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Hello.
Im thinking about making assassin.
There is 1 problem ;]
Like paragon=imba, wherever i read about assassin, i find out that he is only used as perma shadow in high end pve areas.
Whole community is screaming that SF should be nefred, so i think it will be nefred in future.
There is my question. If perma shadow will be nefred, will assassin worth something in high end pve areas and as title hunter (main character).
Thanks

MagmaRed · Jul 10, 2009, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Any character class can be used for title hunting and high end PvE. However, if you intend to use PUGs to do the elite areas (UW, FoW, DoA, etc.) then you will fail more then succeed. Knowing what you face in those areas and taking a build/team to handle it is all you need. Perma is not required, not a single PvE skill either.

Pick a class you will enjoy playing as a title hunting character will be played a LOT. Then make sure you know how to use it and have a guild/alliance that will play with you.

Targren · Jul 10, 2009, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dacomos

Hello.
Im thinking about making assassin.
There is 1 problem ;]
Like paragon=imba, wherever i read about assassin, i find out that he is only used as perma shadow in high end pve areas.
Whole community is screaming that SF should be nefred, so i think it will be nefred in future.
There is my question. If perma shadow will be nefred, will assassin worth something in high end pve areas and as title hunter (main character).
Thanks

If you're going to PUG, probably not. If you're going to play with people who AREN'T mouth-breathing dipwads (Guildies, friends, H/H), then sure.

NB: My title-hunting main is a ranger, hardly considered a "gotta have it" class in the high-end, but makes title hunting (aside from a few physical-unfriendly missions for guardian) go a lot smoother.

Pony Slaystation · Jul 10, 2009, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Assassins can actually be really good damage dealers in PvE, it's just that all they are really credited for is being able to perma-tank.

Scott Ware · Jul 10, 2009, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Right now?, there isn't much that a sin can do in High end farming without perma. But that doesn't mean it can't change. It just means that people are so stuck in their ways that it hasn't been developed yet (guilty, too).

I think the class is very versatile, but it's not exactly my main, so I don't have an extensive knowledge of each and every skill.

In short, yes, they're very fun to play and have (arguably) the best dps in the game.

TheodenKing · Jul 10, 2009, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Try this skill bar, and make any changes you see fit. When I use it, I rarely even need to get to skills 5-8 before the target is dead and all my skills are recharged for the next target:

1) Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support
2) Assassin's Promise
3) Pain Inverter
4) Optional (Finish Him or You Move like a Dwarf are good ones)
5) Augury of Death
6) Iron Palm
7) Fox Fangs
8) Nine Tail Strike

Sins that don't know how to stay alive are a drag for pugs. This build takes care of that problem, as you will not be targeted in most cases if you apply your skills correctly.

This build also works extremely well in a discordway team since you have 2 hexes and the vanguard sin applies conditions. Just ping each target as you cast skills 1 or 2. Kill each target before moving on to the next one. The only place I've found the build to not work well is against creatures that you can't hex.. like spirits, in extemely tight agro paths where the sins could cause problems after the primary target is dead, or if your group is using a 600 monk who needs the enemies targeting him.

MagmaRed · Jul 10, 2009, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheodenKing

This build also works extremely well in a discordway team since you have 2 hexes and the vanguard sin applies conditions.

No, it doesn't. It has 3 skills, Iron Palm, Fox Fangs, and 9 Tail Strike. It will knock down a target with a condition or hex, but does not supply either.

jray14 · Jul 10, 2009, 03:15 PM // 15:15

If Discordway is appealing to you, and you have Factions + Nightfall + EOTN, then IMHO the Assassin is one of the best Discordway leaders. Only A and W can go Assassin's Promise - Save Yourselves, and only the Assassin has the energy to do it well. Discordway is great for title hunting because it steamrolls through pretty much anything in PVE, making all that grinding faster. Here's the bar that I use, along with a 3-necro Discordway hero team build:

For Great Justice!
Enduring Toxin
You Move Like a Dwarf!
Assassin's Promise
Finish Him!
Save Yourselves!
Shadow Refuge
Heart of Shadow

I equip a req-Smiting Staff of the Forgotten and fill out my gear with minor runes and Radiant/Attunement. I usually take the Healer, Protector, Necro, and Mesmer henches. The minions are the tanks.

Read up on the Discord Spam team build on PvX for good tips on usage. The only three big problem areas I've encountered are these:

1. No-corpse areas. Replace heroes' corpse skills with Signet of Lost Souls or extra hexes/conditions and just do your best. Remember this includes Dwayna's Sorrow and Death Nova, which are only worthwhile with minions.

2. Shout denial (Well of Silence, Vocal Minority). It isn't so bad if you just move out of the wells and bring extra hex removal.

3. Heavy hex or condition removal. This can be overcome with careful timing and covering of your hex/condition skills.

Ginger Hunter · Jul 10, 2009, 03:16 PM // 15:16

My main is a sin and i rarely do SC's and only use perma for solo farming, i also find that i can get into PuG's aslong as im crit scythe, its arguably the best dps build for a sin.

I enjoy it much more than something like DB/MS because i usually find i cant even finish my chain before the target dies, but with crit scythe it hits hard enough and quick enough =D

And i dont think you will have problems finding a group for high end pve. Unless its a bunch of scrubs using tank and spank >_>

Helix Dreadlock · Jul 10, 2009, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Use mobeius strike, barrage, or scythe assassin.

Major DPS, great survival ect for the last 2.

Lux Aeterna · Jul 10, 2009, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helix Dreadlock

Use mobeius strike, barrage, or scythe assassin.

Major DPS, great survival ect for the last 2.

Especially Moebius or Critscythe, both can do quite a bit of damage in pve and critscythe has the advantage of supplying constant deep wound to aid your party's main source of damage (nukers, SS, discord).

In extremely high end elite pve, the only classes with use are those in whatever team build your team is running. In most pve, though, it doesn't matter what class you are as long as you're running an effective build.

Sins also are great for pvp as long as you don't gvg.

insidious420 · Jul 10, 2009, 04:20 PM // 16:20

I only rly used perma-Sin solo, or with 2 bots in a setup I made. For general PvE, there rly are a lot of viable, fun 'sin builds. Mainly, the most important skill you should always have is Critical Agility. It boosts armor & attack speed & is a must have, but is a PvE only Nightfall skill.

One of my favorite builds, which I used in FoW in PUGs (who were all typically rather surprised @ my effectiveness):
1. Golden Fox Strike
2. Golden Fang Strike
3. Death Blossom
4. Temple Strike {E}
5. Critical Agility
6. Dash (or Dark Escape)
7. Shadow Walk
8. Rebirth

This was really versatile, as long as I had competent monks, although healing was rarely needed if played right. Shadow Walk in to a monk or caster: 1>4>3 then 1>2>3 until dead. Then, switch targets & spam 1>2>3, or use Dash (or Dark Escape) to shadow step to safety.

This is just one example obviously, but I had so much fun with this & pretty much all my PUGs loved having me after they saw how quickly I'd take out monks or other bothersome casters, or at least disable them while they killed others.

Jul 10, 2009, 01:14 PM // 13:14	#1
Dacomos Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Feb 2009	Assassin without perma Hello. Im thinking about making assassin. There is 1 problem ;] Like paragon=imba, wherever i read about assassin, i find out that he is only used as perma shadow in high end pve areas. Whole community is screaming that SF should be nefred, so i think it will be nefred in future. There is my question. If perma shadow will be nefred, will assassin worth something in high end pve areas and as title hunter (main character). Thanks

Jul 10, 2009, 03:16 PM // 15:16	#9
Ginger Hunter Academy Page Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: England Guild: HEH Profession: A/D	My main is a sin and i rarely do SC's and only use perma for solo farming, i also find that i can get into PuG's aslong as im crit scythe, its arguably the best dps build for a sin. I enjoy it much more than something like DB/MS because i usually find i cant even finish my chain before the target dies, but with crit scythe it hits hard enough and quick enough =D And i dont think you will have problems finding a group for high end pve. Unless its a bunch of scrubs using tank and spank >_> Last edited by Ginger Hunter; Jul 10, 2009 at 03:18 PM // 15:18.. Reason: forgot something =<

Jul 10, 2009, 04:20 PM // 16:20	#12
insidious420 Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Nov 2005 Guild: RisE Profession: W/	I only rly used perma-Sin solo, or with 2 bots in a setup I made. For general PvE, there rly are a lot of viable, fun 'sin builds. Mainly, the most important skill you should always have is Critical Agility. It boosts armor & attack speed & is a must have, but is a PvE only Nightfall skill. One of my favorite builds, which I used in FoW in PUGs (who were all typically rather surprised @ my effectiveness): 1. Golden Fox Strike 2. Golden Fang Strike 3. Death Blossom 4. Temple Strike {E} 5. Critical Agility 6. Dash (or Dark Escape) 7. Shadow Walk 8. Rebirth This was really versatile, as long as I had competent monks, although healing was rarely needed if played right. Shadow Walk in to a monk or caster: 1>4>3 then 1>2>3 until dead. Then, switch targets & spam 1>2>3, or use Dash (or Dark Escape) to shadow step to safety. This is just one example obviously, but I had so much fun with this & pretty much all my PUGs loved having me after they saw how quickly I'd take out monks or other bothersome casters, or at least disable them while they killed others. Last edited by insidious420; Jul 10, 2009 at 04:52 PM // 16:52..

Jul 10, 2009, 01:20 PM // 13:20	#2
MagmaRed Furnace Stoker Join Date: Mar 2007 Guild: Our Crabs Know True [LOVE] Profession: R/	Any character class can be used for title hunting and high end PvE. However, if you intend to use PUGs to do the elite areas (UW, FoW, DoA, etc.) then you will fail more then succeed. Knowing what you face in those areas and taking a build/team to handle it is all you need. Perma is not required, not a single PvE skill either. Pick a class you will enjoy playing as a title hunting character will be played a LOT. Then make sure you know how to use it and have a guild/alliance that will play with you.

Jul 10, 2009, 02:02 PM // 14:02	#4
Pony Slaystation Krytan Explorer Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Cardboard Box Guild: Guilds are irrelevant. This... is...... BUILD WARS!!! Profession: Rt/	Assassins can actually be really good damage dealers in PvE, it's just that all they are really credited for is being able to perma-tank.

Jul 10, 2009, 02:05 PM // 14:05	#5
Scott Ware Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Texas Profession: N/	Right now?, there isn't much that a sin can do in High end farming without perma. But that doesn't mean it can't change. It just means that people are so stuck in their ways that it hasn't been developed yet (guilty, too). I think the class is very versatile, but it's not exactly my main, so I don't have an extensive knowledge of each and every skill. In short, yes, they're very fun to play and have (arguably) the best dps in the game.

Jul 10, 2009, 02:30 PM // 14:30	#6
TheodenKing Jungle Guide Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: DoA Guild: Dark Order of Retarded Knights (doRk) Profession: N/Me	Try this skill bar, and make any changes you see fit. When I use it, I rarely even need to get to skills 5-8 before the target is dead and all my skills are recharged for the next target: 1) Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support 2) Assassin's Promise 3) Pain Inverter 4) Optional (Finish Him or You Move like a Dwarf are good ones) 5) Augury of Death 6) Iron Palm 7) Fox Fangs 8) Nine Tail Strike Sins that don't know how to stay alive are a drag for pugs. This build takes care of that problem, as you will not be targeted in most cases if you apply your skills correctly. This build also works extremely well in a discordway team since you have 2 hexes and the vanguard sin applies conditions. Just ping each target as you cast skills 1 or 2. Kill each target before moving on to the next one. The only place I've found the build to not work well is against creatures that you can't hex.. like spirits, in extemely tight agro paths where the sins could cause problems after the primary target is dead, or if your group is using a 600 monk who needs the enemies targeting him.

Jul 10, 2009, 03:15 PM // 15:15	#8
jray14 Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Location: NC, USA Guild: Ohm Mahnee Pedmay [Hoom]	If Discordway is appealing to you, and you have Factions + Nightfall + EOTN, then IMHO the Assassin is one of the best Discordway leaders. Only A and W can go Assassin's Promise - Save Yourselves, and only the Assassin has the energy to do it well. Discordway is great for title hunting because it steamrolls through pretty much anything in PVE, making all that grinding faster. Here's the bar that I use, along with a 3-necro Discordway hero team build: For Great Justice! Enduring Toxin You Move Like a Dwarf! Assassin's Promise Finish Him! Save Yourselves! Shadow Refuge Heart of Shadow I equip a req-Smiting Staff of the Forgotten and fill out my gear with minor runes and Radiant/Attunement. I usually take the Healer, Protector, Necro, and Mesmer henches. The minions are the tanks. Read up on the Discord Spam team build on PvX for good tips on usage. The only three big problem areas I've encountered are these: 1. No-corpse areas. Replace heroes' corpse skills with Signet of Lost Souls or extra hexes/conditions and just do your best. Remember this includes Dwayna's Sorrow and Death Nova, which are only worthwhile with minions. 2. Shout denial (Well of Silence, Vocal Minority). It isn't so bad if you just move out of the wells and bring extra hex removal. 3. Heavy hex or condition removal. This can be overcome with careful timing and covering of your hex/condition skills.

Jul 10, 2009, 03:22 PM // 15:22	#10
Helix Dreadlock Jungle Guide Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Imperial Sanctum Guild: Legendary Drunken Masters [DUI] Profession: E/Me	Use mobeius strike, barrage, or scythe assassin. Major DPS, great survival ect for the last 2.